Transcript: Season 2, Episode 3
Marc Douthit
Terri:
If you ask Marc Douthit for his bio, you'll see that he earned a Bachelor of Science in Speech from Emerson in 1986. You'll also learn that he's a lawyer who lives in Miami. If you ask Marc Douthit how he describes what he does, he'll tell you he's a dealmaker, because he says that's what the best lawyers do.
But if you talk to Marc Douthit that as I had the pleasure of doing, you discover that he's a modern-day sage, funny, unfiltered, wise. Honestly, when we started talking, I thought I knew which way we were headed. But by the end of the interview, I found myself miles away on another road thinking, how did we get here? That's essentially how Marc Douthit lived his life.
As you'll hear for yourself, Marc almost never ends up doing exactly what he planned on doing, he does something else. And then, something else after that. Often, something that surprises him. He told me off the air that some of the biggest decisions of his life, he didn't even think about, he just did them. But that's not a problem. The problem is that most people do the opposite. Think too much, and then talk ourselves out of doing things. Life is a series of random accidents, he says. What counts is what you do with them. I give you Marc Douthit on making it not just as a lawyer, but as a person in a world that tends to overthink itself and underestimate everyone else.
Terri:
You're the first and only lawyer I have interviewed for the Emerson podcast. So, yes. So, happy you can represent lawyers, who are so underrepresented.
Marc Douthit:
Yeah. Well, right now, there's no need for us right now.
Terri:
There isn't?
Marc Douthit:
No, no.
Terri:
Well, you're in Miami.
Marc Douthit:
Yes, I am. Yes.
Terri:
You are. So, you're living a life away from the cold. And-
Marc Douthit:
Well, I enjoy the cold.
Terri:
You like it. So, you liked being in Boston?
Marc Douthit:
Boston was some of the best years of my life. I really enjoyed Boston.
Terri:
And when were you there aside from just school, or give me a little bit of some of the time you spent there?
Marc Douthit:
Well, I got there in '82 when I started school, and stayed there through graduation, and then worked at the college for two-and-a-half years afterwards.
Terri:
Really?
Marc Douthit:
Yes. I worked in the Admissions Office. I was the Assistant Director of Admission Coordinator of Minority Recruitment.
Terri:
Interesting. You were the gatekeeper.
Marc Douthit:
I was the gatekeeper. I started actually before I graduated, and they made me do my work in some dark room in the back of 100 Beacon Street, because they didn't want anybody to know that I was reviewing folders and admitting students to the college while I was still a student.
Terri:
You're kidding. Wow. I definitely have never heard that. You were the person, the only student of all the other people who were working in admissions, who was going through student applications, and really deciding their fate, or at least suggesting their fate.
Marc Douthit:
Well, we had a process, and I was part of that process. They threw me right into it.
Terri:
And tell me a little bit about that as most people won't be in that position.When I think of recruiting, I think you're out trying to invite people to apply.
Marc Douthit:
Well, I was doing that. I was on the road 30 some weeks a year. You travel a lot. But also, besides the reading of the applications, there's also determining where we send people to travel, and what schools we send people to travel, and with targeting certain demographic groups, and things like that. And so, that was the in-office job.
Terri:
Right, because like I say, when you were a student, you couldn't be traveling 30 weeks a year. You were trying to finish your degree.
Marc Douthit:
Right. I finished in May, and I literally hit the road, basically.
Terri:
Well, see, that's really interesting, because you had a perspective that few people had. You had just finished your degree. And now, you're in the position of, "Hey, there's people who would love to go there." And what is that like? It's not even like, well, you joined this team 10 years later. You were fresh from your experience. What was that like? When people were asking you, "Oh, should I go to Emerson?" Or were they dying to go to Emerson? What was the thing that you found yourself saying over and over again?
Marc Douthit:
Well, I found myself saying that when you are making a decision about a place to go to school, there are factors that everybody else tells you ought to use. SAT scores, class rank, what's the graduation rates, or whatever. And really, your four years of college, while you should take them very seriously, and you should focus on them, and use them as a... get everything you can out of them.
What you really ought to be looking for college to do is the last opportunity to simply experiment with life. And find a place that provides you opportunities to say I started out as a musical theater major.
Terri:
You did?
Marc Douthit:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a thing. But the theater has not lost anything by the fact that I changed my major, trust me.
Terri:
Right. But that's so interesting. You're saying, rather than think about matching metrics, or scores, or test scores, you're saying that this is a bigger decision for other reasons. So, you weren't just everyone should go to Emerson because you don't want everyone to go... you can't have everyone go to Emerson. You just you weren't just promoting like, come to us. That wasn't the vibe.
Marc Douthit:
In 1980, and just shows you how Emerson and I connected, in 1980, I was in Boston at the National Forensic league championships. It was at the Park Plaza.
Terri:
Okay, fancy.
Marc Douthit:
I had some time on my hands. So, I wandered around the city. I get to this corner of Berkeley and Beacon Street, and I'm trying to get my bearings, to see where I've been walking, and haven't been paying attention. I need to make sure I can get back to the hotel. And I sat down on this little wall that was out there. And I discovered later on, after I became a student, that that was the very first time I sat down at the famous Emerson Wall.
Terri:
The wall. The wall.
Marc Douthit:
That was two years before I went to school there.
Terri:
Isn't that interesting? A foreshadow, you were right there.
Marc Douthit:
I didn't know anything about Emerson at the time. I just needed a place to catch my bearings so that I wasn't going to walk, and not ever be able to find my... back to the hotel.
Terri:
And then, fast forward. You decide to go to Emerson.
Marc Douthit:
Right. My guidance counselor, I had other choices. And at the last minute, she said, "I think you want to go to look at this place called Emerson." I had never heard of it. It was never on my list. But I had done speech and debate for four years. She said, "This is the kind of place you should go to." I said, "Okay." And so, I went on a tour in April.
Marc Douthit:
And I go to a tour, and the ironic thing is that it was a warm day in Boston. I come from a very traditional kind of family. So, I'm wearing a jacket and a tie on a college tour, and it's just me.
Terri:
Oh, God, so sweet.
Marc Douthit:
But that's the way I grew up. So, you dress for the... you give the reverence to what you're doing.
So, I was wearing a jacket and a tie. I sit there, and they come down. It's at 100 Beacon Street is where the admissions office was. I ended up working in that building later. And they come down, they give the speech, this is Emerson, and the tour guide was there, and telling us what we are going to do. Wonderful. They walk out the building, and make a left towards Brimmer Street, which is where the theater was, which is where we were starting the tour.
I'm like, you know what, I'll make a right. And I walk back up Beacon Street towards the other end. And I get to that same corner of Berkeley and Beacon, and goes, this looks familiar. And I cross the street. Now, this is absolutely terrible reason to decide to go to a college.
Terri:
Okay.
Marc Douthit:
I crossed the street. It was the first really warm day in Boston in the spring. So, all of the young ladies are outside, on the steps of 132 Beacon Street catching rays. I'm a 17-year-old young man, this looks interesting to me. I stop and have a chat.
Terri:
Oh my god, I love it.
Marc Douthit:
I meet all of these Emerson students. They invite me to a party that night on campus. I hang out with a bunch of students for the weekend, I come home, and announce to my parents that I'm going to Emerson College.
Terri:
You bailed on the tour. You're like, "Nope, I'm going to go over here." And then, you met some people, but you actually made real connections during your visit. You got to see what the student life was like a little bit. You got more of a taste to get to know-
Marc Douthit:
All I know is that it was a great time for me, weekend in college, and hanging out with college students. I ate in the cafeteria at the time. They snuck me in, and let me eat with them.
Terri:
That's amazing. You got swept away. This is amazing. But this is really, you weren't kidding. And you said this is not the best reason. But in fact, it was the best. Because who picks a college based on the way a room looks, or how things might happen in this room where things could be staged. You went, and you got the actual experience with students.
And if they were a bunch of jerks, and you hated the vibe, you probably wouldn't have applied. But you were sold on the community, which in fact, is the one part of Emerson that can extend. You can't stay in those buildings forever.
Marc Douthit:
Well, that to me, there's your sales pitch.
Terri:
Yeah. It is. It really is, you fell in love with the place based on the people that you met.
Marc Douthit:
I applied right then. Emerson had a rolling admissions policy, basically, you could reply throughout the year. And a couple of weeks later, I got an acceptance letter. And I said, I'm going to go there.
Terri:
Yeah. That's it, never looked back. And then, a few years later, you're out on the road, telling people how to think about choosing a school. It's amazing.
Marc Douthit:
I never told them that story, though.
Terri:
No, no, no, maybe not. You're like, "Hey, come party with us, and see if it's a fit." Just kidding. But you said something about musical theater, but you did graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Speech. Just since you are a speaker, and the forensics person, you had really been someone who was expert, even at that age and that, is that something you thought you wanted to do? And what do you do with a Bachelor of Science in Speech, actually?
Marc Douthit:
Well, what do you do? One of the things you do is go to law school.
Terri:
Well, I was going to say, was that a given? Because I don't know a lot of Emerson lawyer. I know, there's a lot of Emerson lawyers, but you're the first one I'm interviewing. So, is that a given? Was that in your mind that like, "Well, ultimately, I'll go to law school or?"
Marc Douthit:
Nope.
Terri:
No. Okay. So, walk me through that.
Marc Douthit:
What I was really thinking I was going to do was to work in some sort of either politics, running campaigns, speech writing, those kinds of things. And I've done that periodically over the last 35 years. But I thought that that was really the direction that I was going. Gregory Payne was one of my professors.
He's still there. And I was always an admirer, I always admired the work that he did. And he was working with the Bradley campaign, and things like that. And so, I thought that that was the direction I was going to go. Law school, it was almost as random as Emerson.
Terri:
Was it? You have to take some tests. You have to know you're going to go to law school, right?
Marc Douthit:
That story is even probably makes me that doesn't carry me over in such a great light, either. I hadn't thought about law school candidly. I had more interest in going to law school than I did in being a lawyer.
Terri:
Oh, interesting. Why is that? Law school sounds like very, very hard and boring to me.
Marc Douthit:
Both of those things. Back in those days, there was a movie out, and actually, it was a television show called The Paper Chase. And it talked about the Harvard Law experience, and all of those things. And so, I always thought that sounds cool.
Terri:
No, it's sexy, right? Anything they make a show out of is sort of sexy.
Marc Douthit:
But I wasn't sure I wanted to be a lawyer. Even though my mother tells me when I was in eighth grade, when they asked me what I wanted to be, I said I wanted to be a lawyer.
Terri:
You said I wanted to go to law school even more than I necessarily wanted to be a lawyer, why is that?
Marc Douthit:
Well, because I enjoyed the challenge. I enjoyed the study. I enjoyed the entire environment of people who are there to take different bits, and pieces, and make it into a whole. The law is nothing but a bunch of little pieces from all different places. Our laws are based upon the... in Louisiana, they use one system that they baked into Hammurabi code, and then there's the English common law, and then we use some... all kinds of different things are intertwined into the laws that we make.
One of the things that my life is probably a... it's the most instructive to observe from it is probably making good decisions for all the wrong reasons.
Terri:
But then how do you scale that or make sure you keep doing that? But who cares if they're the right... if it turns out they're the right decisions, that's great. If you had to teach that, how would you teach that to someone? Or what would you tell them to unlearn? What would you tell them to unlearn when you're trying to explain it?
Marc Douthit:
What I tell people to unlearn is there's this whole box that we put ourselves in, and then we applaud ourselves, and we say we're thinking outside the box. I lived what I consider to be a reasonably fruitful life, not willing to accept the existence of the box.
Terri:
So, you don't even give yourself credit for going outside it occasionally. You're saying that you don't even buy the box.
Marc Douthit:
I don't think that there is a box. I think that the only person who puts limitations on you, that you reasonably are or should listen to is you.
Terri:
But somehow you end up doing really well. Whereas, maybe some people didn't. Do you think this was a bunch of Marc happening to bump into things that turned out he was good at them? Or do you think that you might have the secret to life that we need to know here?
Marc Douthit:
Oh, I don't, I definitely don't have that. I definitely don't have that. What I think it was is a lot of times, we don't recognize things that would run around in our head, and we dismiss them, and we move on because we're so busy living life in order to survive, that we don't recognize that maybe some of the best ideas that you have, and maybe the best directions that you should move towards are the things that you barely even consciously understand are going on in your head.
Terri:
Yeah. But then, how do I access those? You're saying that's intuition in a way. You're saying it's beyond-
Marc Douthit:
It is. Follow your gut. I think everybody has it intuitively, I just think it's there. I think it's there.
Terri:
Do you think most people talk themselves out of the intuition? And you don't. And that's how you just barreled through.
Marc Douthit:
So, certainly, there's some extent of that. My problem has always been I don't really have a filter. And so, that works. That's good and bad. It's gotten me in trouble in court, and it's gotten me successes in court. But there are things that I don't think that the... I've spent my life, maybe this is the way to describe it. I have spent my life maximizing the fact that people underestimate me. And that to me-
That to me, right there is, I think it was Matthew McConaughey. He said something he's always challenging himself against the future Matthew. Against the Matthew 10 years from now. And it's like that. It's that I'm thinking about I know that I'm not going to retire. Being a lawyer is not my last career. I knew that being in admissions wasn't my last career. When I taught for 12 years while I was still practicing law, I always thought that I'd end up in the classroom somewhere. After 12 years of it, maybe not so much.
I had no idea that today, my wife and I, we own an online bakery. Now, I've always enjoyed cooking, it's a bakery and catering. I've always enjoyed cooking. My wife is a registered dietician. She works with food every day. At some point, this whole idea was that we would retire, and then we would do the bakery, and we'd open up a little shop, and you could get coffee, and muffins, and we would be the place, the local gathering spot in some small town.
That was what we thought we were going to do. And then, one day, and this is probably nothing is more indicative of the life that I think I should lead. I do a very specialized area of law. As to one of the questions that you gave me, or that I got from the thing was, how do you describe what you do? And if I was going to pick one word, I would say a dealmaker.
Terri:
Oh, interesting. Why is that?
Marc Douthit:
Because that's basically how I earn my living. I find deals. I find two people who are looking for something, and I put them together. And then, hopefully, in the course of that time, I can make a little money off of it for putting together. That's what-
Terri:
As a lawyer, you're like a negotiator.
Marc Douthit:
As a lawyer.
Terri:
You feel that that's a gift.
Marc Douthit:
That's right.
Terri:
Yeah.
Marc Douthit:
But there's also an area of law that I do. It's called it's juvenile dependency law. And it's working with families, and children who have been removed from those families, and helping the parents get their kids back. It's emotionally draining. It's time consuming, but it's a passion of mine. And so, I do-
So, I did it for 20 some years, and then it just got to the point where one, it takes up so much of my time. I needed to go out and make some money. So, I had to step away from it. It's just that simple. Your passion is only going to get you so far. And one of the questions that was also asked is what piece of advice do you hate that people always give to people?
Terri:
Yeah.
Marc Douthit:
And that is do what you love and the money will take care of itself. No, that's not true. The money does not take care of itself.
Terri:
Thank you. Thank you for saying that, because it's a lot of BS that we're fed around that.
Marc Douthit:
That's right. Okay.
Terri:
Explain why you say that. Explain that. People say, Well, if you just follow what you love, and then people will just pay you to do a thing.
Marc Douthit:
No, yeah. And what do you love might be something that it doesn't earn any money. It has no monetary, you can't monetize it. And this work-
Terri:
Someone who wants to have a life of passion might say, but Marc, do I have to choose between my passion and making a living?
Marc Douthit:
No, you do not. I tried to do them both.
Terri:
Yes.
Marc Douthit:
I did my passion. I made my deals. There's my vocation and my avocation. And so, I tried to do them both. At some point, I did have to step away from that work after I took like six years off, I didn't do it. And then, I went back to doing it. And I was back two months, two months, I am sitting in a courtroom in front of a judge I never ever like to go in front of. But she has basically commanded me to be there on this day. So, I'm there. And I'm listening to this lawyer at the podium on another case, and talking about these two little boys who their adaptive placement has fallen apart.
And so, I'm listening with some curiosity, and they say they don't know what to do. And the first thing out of this judge's mouth is well, I'm not separating these boys. They are bonded together and whatever. So, I talked to the lawyer afterwards. I said, Listen, I think I know somebody who might be interested in taking them. So, okay, fine. I was going to see that person the next week. Before I got the chance to talk to them, they got killed in a motorcycle accident.
They died. Never got the chance to do it. His wife was still... I didn't think it would be insane. I'm sorry to hear about your husband. But oh, by the way, do you want to adopt these two little boys? I didn't think that was a good conversation.
Terri:
Right, no, no, no. Oh my God.
Marc Douthit:
So, I get back to court. I get back to the court the next week. And I announced to the judge, and to the lawyer. I said, I'm sorry. I didn't tell him the circumstances. But I said that's not going to work out. And the judge said something to me. And again, I don't like this lady, and she don't really like me. But she said something to me. She says, "Well, what about you, Mr. Douthit?
Everything in my head said no. The words that came out of my mouth were, "Yeah, Your Honor. We'll do it." Now, no discussion with my wife who actually was out of town. I've now committed to add two people to my family.
Terri:
I can't believe you were like, first of all, why would that judge float that? Is that another thing you do? Would you adopt these kids? That seems crazy to me, that it would even-
Marc Douthit:
I know the judge, and I know for many years. But she threw it out there.
Terri:
Why do you think you said yes?
Marc Douthit:
Boy, to this day, now, five years later, as I sit here, and listen to my six-year-old, or my seven-year-old now, he just turned seven in the January, and my 10-year-old as they're doing their virtual schooling, and I'm trying to keep one ear out there, and listening to them, making them, sure, they're doing what they're supposed to do. And I'm in here on virtual Zoom hearings, and things like that, and calls. I still don't know. But I do know this. I complain about it every day, and my wife tells me that, but I love it like nothing else I've ever done.
Terri:
Wow. Wow. You seemed to have stumbled into amazing and strange opportunities in the strangest ways. Here, I thought we were going to talk about your law practice. And this is just an amazing thing. Your life took a thrilling turn. And not when you were 21 and decided to have kids, you know what I mean? This is-
Marc Douthit:
No. I am not at a place where I thought I would be. But life happens to you, not because of you. And-
Terri:
Yeah. Well, there you go. There is no box. And you didn't say, "Gee, I'm passionate about kids. I think I'll go adopt one." But two found their way into your life. And now there's a passion around, and even if you bitch about it, we all bitch about things. That's nothing. But how about that now, discovering a new passion as a parent when it wasn't something you were looking for?
Marc Douthit:
Parenting is the most interesting thing I've ever done. And I've done a lot of interesting things in my life. But I have to tell you, nothing is like this.
Terri:
I can imagine, nothing compared.
Marc Douthit:
To me, one of the most fascinating aspects of it is watching a little person get smarter every day. You can see them learn.
Terri:
And then, they'll speed up right past you, too.
Marc Douthit:
Oh, no, no, there's no doubt, there's no doubt. And now that they're getting older, they're starting to coordinate their attacks.
Terri:
Oh my gosh. What an amazing story. Truly. What about that judge? Did you have this... she must be like, did she come to see the kids? I know she doesn't like you, but still, this is amazing.
Marc Douthit:
Well, it's funny because I actually put her in touch with another Emerson grad, and he did a documentary for Voice of America, and she was highlighted on it or whatever. And then, when he was down here over Christmas, he told me that she asked him because they were going to have lunch. Because they've gotten to know each other, and they were going to have lunch. And she said, "Ask Marc if he wants to come."
Terri:
Isn't that something? But you know what, this is an important lesson too. You didn't even like each other. And you don't have to like everyone. But some amazing things can come through people you're not even really close to. Amazing that she opened up a door for you. You send good people her way. You don't even have to be good, tight buddies, right?
Marc Douthit:
No, no, no, no, and you really don't. And that's the other thing, and this is what I think is as a general rule, and society as a whole, or whatever. We have just simply lost the notion that we cannot agree with each other. We don't have to like each other. But we treat each other with kindness, and consideration, and compassion. It doesn't matter.
I don't have to sit at the dinner table with you every night. Go home to your family. But when we're sitting across that boardroom and that table, that's fine, we can disagree. But then when we get up, we move on to something else. And we've lost nuance in our society. We've lost the idea.
Terri:
... to be all in, we have to be entrenched in these tribal like anti-you, anti-this, I can't talk to you, if you believe this. We've lost the nuances, which brings me back to something you said earlier about law. You said it's lots of different things that piece together. And in my mind, I'm not a lawyer, I think of the law in all caps as a monolith.
We think of it as an all thing, like it's either the law or it's not the law. And you said they're all pieces of the law. But that's the same thing that goes for humans, and what they believe to that we think, well, if you're pro this person, then I can't talk to you. But you're saying there's lots of ways to respect without having to be in the same team.
Marc Douthit:
That's exactly right. That is exactly right. And if you ask me, what's the biggest lesson I want to try and teach my boys, that's it right there. That's it. You don't have to like everybody, but you have to treat everybody with respect. You don't have to get along with everybody, but you have to be kind to everybody
Of the worst thing you can ever have to do is sit and stand in front of me, and I'm giving you a lecture. It drives them crazy. It just drives them crazy. But I'll keep doing it over, and over, and over again. And they'll be getting tired of it. And I'll think they're not listening to me. And then, every once in a while, one of them will say something that mirrors exactly what I said to them. And then, I'll go, "Hey, something is getting through."
Terri:
Yes. And they will get older and meet the world. And they will discover what it is to be treated with disrespect, and total disregard, or to be underestimated. And they will recognize that oh, they're taking for granted. Yeah, we'd be kind, we'd be nice, okay, I got it. But then the world isn't like that. And so, it actually is a real act of courage to be able to continue to do what you're telling them to do. Because there's no guarantee that it's going to come back to them.
Marc Douthit:
One of my favorite expressions, especially to my oldest one, I say, "What other people think of you is none of your business."
Terri:
Yes, that's great.
Marc Douthit:
It has nothing to do with you.
Terri:
You can't fix, you can't convince. And now, what?
Marc Douthit:
It's none of your business.
Terri:
Now, what? Now, you're raising two sons, you're as lawyer, but you're going to move on to something else at some point.
Marc Douthit:
At some point, I'm certain I will move on to something else. Right now, I'm a lawyer because I got to private school tuitions and boys eat their body weight and food.
Terri:
You're not leaving law right away. Because as we established, passions don't always pay for themselves. But what I love about what you've said is, you've done lots of different things. And you can do them, and go back to wherever you need to, to get resources that you need, and money that we all need. But there's a beginning, a middle, and end, and some things you do will come to an end, and you'll move on to something else. But you don't seem to be someone who over identifies with a role or a title. I'm a lawyer, so I always have to be a lawyer. You're saying it doesn't matter. You're going to something else.
Marc Douthit:
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.
If I was going to write a book, sell a book about my life, it would probably be titled, why not?
Terri:
That sounds good. And so, you're going to do this. You're going to do the parenting thing for a good long while. You're going to be a lawyer for a while. You're going to run this thing. Let me ask you a question I ask everyone. And I'm very interested in your response. What does it mean for you to make it? And how will you know when you get there?
Marc Douthit:
Wow, I don't know. I'm not there yet.
Terri:
That's good, that's fine. There is no-
Marc Douthit:
Maybe I'll figure it out.
I don't think that there's a make it. I don't think there is a place that you make it. I think if you ever decide that you made it, then you probably stop living. For me, the struggle is every day, I get up. Nowadays, I don't get dressed, and go to the office. Even though I'm sitting here in my office at the house. I put on a shirt and I put on a tie.
Terri:
Really?
Marc Douthit:
Yeah, yeah. Again, I'm the guy who wore a suit to the college tour.
Terri:
Same guy.
Marc Douthit:
I'm still the same guy.
The struggle is making yourself always feel like you've got more to do. And so, when you make it, that means you've decided that you don't have anything else, nothing to do.
Terri:
We have more to do.
Marc Douthit:
I just know there's so much more to do. I don't know what I want to... I joke with my wife about this. I said I have no idea what I want to be when I grow up
Terri:
But it's very exciting and really, so honest, and so truthful. All of this Marc, it's been really a pleasure.