Transcript: Season 4, Episode 5
Andrew Siañez-De La O
Georgette Pierre:
What does it mean to make it big? Well, it depends on who you ask. And we did. Welcome to Making It Big in 30 Minutes, a podcast for, by, and about the Emerson community. You're about to meet an Emersonian who's making it. Making a living, making a difference and sometimes making it up as they go. I'm your host and alum, Georgette Pierre. If you like what you hear, subscribe and share with your friends and meet me and other Emersonians over on Emerge, the only digital platform exclusive to the Emerson community. Go to emerge.emerson.edu for more.
Andrew Siañez-De La O is a Mexican American playwright and audio drama writer from the U.S. borderlands. His stage work, which often centers his borderland culture and heritage, has been developed across the country at companies such as The Playwrights Realm, Company One, Huntington Theater Company and more. He is also an organizing member of the WGA Audio Alliance, working towards an equitable future for audio drama writers. We spoke about his upcoming collaboration with Stormfire Productions for an audio series adaptation of his young adult fantasy play, The Ortiz Twins Are Coming Home. I give you Andrew Siañez-De La O, I'm making it as an audio drama writer and playwright.
Hi, Andrew.
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Hi, I'm so happy to be here.
Georgette Pierre:
I'm so excited for you to be here, oh man. Andrew, thank you so much. I can't wait to dive in. There was just so much of your background that I was so curious and interested in and so really want to delve into some of that. One thing that I saw and I really resonated with was, often, I feel like in the spaces that I've been in that were super white, I always had to tiptoe on what I could focus on. And in the work that I read from your website and other things, you often center your borderland culture and heritage in your work, which is phenomenal. Have you always been able to enter the space, focusing on your heritage in the work you created? If not, when did that change become a must for you?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Ooh, that's so interesting. Not to jump immediately into Emerson right away, but I do think it really started there. I came to Emerson as a BFA acting student and I had a wonderful stage professor, Eric Weiss, who went out of his way to put together acting slides for Latinx voices. I was so appreciative of that and it sort of made me realize that I wanted to write those narratives. I still love performing, but I very quickly transferred over to the BFA Theatre Performance program for that broadness, and to be able to take so many more writing classes. And I think that's where. I went into that class and made the decision that I'm going to write something about home. I'm going to write something that's reflective of my family, reflective of me, because it's a classroom, what am I going to lose? I'm not going to embarrass myself.
So I started writing and from there I thought, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to be doing. I want to be writing narratives that remind me of home. I want to be writing narratives that remind me of people that I know from home and I'll admit that to a degree that sort of narrows the play field a little bit. There is still a lot of work to be done and making these narratives accessible across all theater, but I found such wonderful supportive homes for a lot of my work and I have no intention to really change the type of narratives I'm writing.
Georgette Pierre:
I love that. We'll definitely circle back on Emerson, which we're both alums of. I think about also the work. That's why it stood out to me. I was just like, "I aspire and inspire." I'm like, I really wanted to delve into focusing on the African diaspora and so when I saw that a lot of your work was literally only focusing on that, I was like, "Yes, we got one. Yes, keep it going." So awesome. Audio drama writing is very specific. It allows a listener's examination to run wild per se. What inspired you getting into this field and specifically the genres that you write about or write for?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah. No, it was really interesting because I kind of fell into audio drama. I'd always been a listener. I'd always been curious about writing my own and I actually fell into it while attending a Theatre for Young Audiences Festival in Austin. It was a Latinx festival specifically. Really, really wonderful and there was a panel being held by, it was Dania Ramos and Michael Aquino from Cocotazo Media and they were doing audio dramas and they were presenting it as audio theater. And I was like, "Oh, that's interesting. What is that intersection like?" And I went to this session and I ended up being the only one that attended this particular session. So I really got to talk and work with Dania and Michael. And from there they reached out after having read some of my YA stage work and they were saying, "We have this podcast, we have Timestorm. And we really think your writing sort of fits this world. Would you be at all interested for writing for audio?"
And I'll admit, I was interested, but a big part of it too is that, oh, this is a gig. Like this is a job. This is an opportunity for me to be doing writing work and getting paid for that. And I immediately jumped in and it was definitely a steep learning curve. Writing for audio is one learning curve, but then also writing for young listeners is another. But it was such a joyous time. And it was also rooted in it its own specific diaspora in the Puerto Rican community. So being able to play around in that world and sort of really get my feet wet in audio, it was so wonderful. And you're right. It's definitely a genre. It's definitely a medium where you can do anything and everything. And I think, what do I want to say about this?
Yeah, it's, I'm excited that I get to be working on such a broad scope of projects and they really do vary in genre so wildly, but I think that's such a joy. It's letting me really tease out that skillset that I have and broaden it and I'm writing horror, I'm writing fantasy, I'm writing YA audio and it's just, such a joy.
Georgette Pierre:
How does one into that field? I remember listening to my friend, he wrote a script and it ended up being turned into an audio drama and we were all sitting there to support him, but it was just, it really, I mean the play came to life and I was imagining when I heard the footsteps, right? The sound effects and everything, it just felt real except he were just listening to it. And so how does one get into that has their own imagination and kind of wants to play around with that narrative writing?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah. Yeah, no, what I want to say is that podcasting is really, really accessible. I think it's especially accessible for listeners. So it's really, really easy to find audiences that are interested in your work. So if you ever feel you have a piece that isn't quite finding its audience through stages, audio is a really great way to really specifically target communities that you want to be listening to your work. But what I will say is that there is a bit of a learning curve when it comes to podcasting. There's a steep equipment cost, depending on programs and hosting, it can certainly build up, but I'll say in my experience, the community is so supportive. Once you start following and interacting with other audio drama creators, you very, very quickly fall into a community. And I think that's the biggest takeaway just from working on Timestorm with Dania and Michael, I have made connections through them.
I mean, even up towards the WGA, I've made connections across audio fiction in general, and everyone is so supportive of each other. And it really is a community where, as long as you're upfront and honest with people, you can say, "I've got a 100 bucks, I've got 25 bucks. I need someone to edit audio. I need someone to dialogue edits." If you ever have a sort of blank space in your knowledge, there's someone out there willing to help you. And I think that's the biggest thing. I think if you are ready to put your best foot forward and make friends and make connections, you can really make any sort of audio project come to life.
Georgette Pierre:
I really like that you noted about if you can't, if you feel you're not finding a home on a stage that you could turn this into a play. Because I know a lot of times as being a big dreamer myself, sometimes you get so stuck on the how, versus allow, this story must be told, we have to be remained flexible and open to how the story gets told. And if it's not necessarily a stage played first, it turns into being an audio drama. It still at least gets circulated for audiences to connect with it. So thank you for saying that. I really love that.
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah, absolutely.
Georgette Pierre:
What's one lesson you learned the hard way?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Ooh, I think, I won't say this theater company's name because overall I really loved working with them. But I was developing a YA play, The Ortiz Twins Are Coming Home. I was developing it in New York and I was working with a really wonderful theater company that put us in a really amazing cohort of PlayLab writers. And it was such a wonderful experience, because I got to write this really large fantastical piece. But where I learned this lesson is that in casting the theater company sort of approached me and they said upfront. They were like, "We're an ensemble theater company. So we want you to choose from an ensemble first." And totally understand that, and I was more than willing to. And I had written over the course of this development year a pretty large YA play, is about 10 to 12 characters, all of whom are supposed to be cast Latinx.
And we got there and I'm like, "Cool, let's look at your list of ensemble members. Oh, you've got three. Awesome, great. I'm going to give them offers, because I love them all." And only one or two were available. So we had that conversation of what's the next step? What are we doing next? And one of the first emails I got was, "Oh, do you have any friends that could do this?" And it's like, "I don't want to like be hearing that as a collaborative partner," who also wasn't based in New York at the time. I was based over here in Boston. And to put that sort of pressure on me as the writer was definitely a huge learning curve, because I always just assumed that a theater company across any scope and size is going to sort of really carry that weight, and that's not always the case.
And I was very fortunate to be with a really wonderful director who was able to take that pressure off me and really put together a wonderful cast. But in that situation I realized that there are theater companies out there who are ready to support this work, who are ready to develop it, who can put their name and their work and their time behind it. But that doesn't always mean it's going to translate directly to stage, because there are so many barriers still in place that prevent these narratives coming forward. And even something as simple as a theater company not having the casting infrastructure to find 10 Latinx actors in New York. Which really there's no excuse for not being able to do that.
But that's part of why this play, which is a massive two plus hour YA play, which in all honesty probably will never find a home on stage, because it is just such a huge scope for a piece for younger audiences. But then you get to audio and I'm doing a full series adaptation of it. So I really get to, two hours was already me sort of clipping the wings of this piece. But now in audio I get 10, 12 episodes where I can explore this fully and really dig into that world. And yeah, it definitely was a lesson in learning the ... I won't always get the support that I hope I would and finding different homes for pieces and being flexible in that sense.
Georgette Pierre:
Right. Yeah, no understandable. I always think about when I work in TV production, it's the same thing. You're always pivoting in TV production. But it always ends up working out the way it's supposed to. And so yeah, the nature of the business. What surprises you most about the work you're doing now?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Let's see. I would probably say that I never saw myself ... Hmm, one thing I'll say, how do I want to put this? I'm surprised with, and I want to be clear, I'm not making a ton of money, but I am surprised at how consistently I am getting paid for the work that I'm doing. Whether I'm writing episodes for podcasts, whether I'm consulting or evaluating or doing sensitivity reads for scripts. And more and more now being paid to be a play reader for festivals and competitions. And I didn't see myself, I think I always had that dream of a few years out of college I'm going to be seeing productions. And I am seeing a handful of productions, but I pictured interviews and I guess I'm doing interview right now. See, I'm not making a good argument.
But I definitely saw myself, so I'm creating my own work. I'm putting my own work out there. But I think in the past couple years, especially because of the pandemic I'm finding myself supporting the work of others. And that has been such a joy. Just being led into other people's worlds and their own, you pour your heart into something and then to invite someone in to play a role in that creation as well is such a joy. And I think just being a part of helping other people create their dreams come true. And then also being a part of theater companies trying to find that next wave of theater writers has been such a joy. And then of course being monetarily supported through that has been just a dream come true.
Georgette Pierre:
It's always nice when you get paid to do what you enjoy doing. Actually it's a perfect segue into my next question. How do you balance the professional life and the creative life?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah, it's hard. It's definitely a lot of very late nights. I will say that I am very much still someone who procrastinates and that definitely bites me in the butt constantly. But I recently actually had a career change. I'd been working in higher education ever since graduating. And my department at Northeastern was downsized. So I ended up losing my job there just earlier this year in August, or I guess earlier last year. But from there I got a job with Company One here in Boston doing social media and communications work. And it's part-time. But that has given me so much more time to really focus on my projects. Because while I was in Northeastern, I'm still doing these, I'm doing residencies, I'm doing fellowships, I'm doing development programs, but I'm fitting all of that into a 40-hour work week, which really led to a lot of sleepless nights and a lot of definitely maybe more unhealthy work habits.
But now that I find myself in a position that admittedly pays much less, I'm making up for that in the time that I can really dedicate to projects and really giving my best foot forward in every project I can rather than, I'm squeezing an hour to work on this thing that I'm passionate about, but I just don't have the time to be too passionate about it. But now I really do have that brevity.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah, no, I'm actually trying to figure that out myself. I'm like, wait, I felt like I had a dull moment at the end of 2021. And then all of a sudden January and I was just like, "Wait, where are all these things coming from that weren't there before, all these opportunities?" And I'm like, "Wait." So when people ask me what I'm working on, Andrew, I'm telling them five different things. And in my mind I was like, "Wait, but how are you going to balance all of these things?" Most of it is creative, but most creative is you're working for it to merge. You want the creative life that you live to merge with the what feeds you and what supports you financially.
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Absolutely.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah, I was curious, I was just like, "How are Andrew balancing all of this?" Because I am still figuring it out.
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah, truth be told, it's barely is the answer.
Georgette Pierre:
In short, barely. You also have, well, let me start this again. So I read that you also got accepted into Huntington Theaters, is it what, fellowship program?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah. Playwriting Fellowship.
Georgette Pierre:
Really competitive. And so for those that are already in this space or looking to get into this space, kind of talk us through one, what were your thoughts going into submitting for Huntington? Did you feel you were going to get the fellowship, and what came out of that fellowship for you?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that is such a good question. I'll A, say that it's been so wonderful and if anyone has the opportunity to apply, I really strongly suggest they do. So I had a list, coming out of Emerson, I had a list of things that I wanted to accomplish in the Boston area. And a lot of them are really aspirational, get a production, work with theater company, make connections, do fellowships. And one of them is the Huntington Playwriting Fellows. And it was one of those where I was like, "It's probably not going to happen, but if it does, that'd be really cool. That'd be really great." And I'll say to my playwriting professor, Andrew Clark at Emerson really, really wonderful and really pushed me to just go for it. Because you never know what's going to happen.
And I think the advice he get me because he had been considered for it a while back and didn't get it, but his advice, not to put Andrew Clark down, he's amazing. But his advice to me was that just because you don't get, it doesn't mean it's because of your writing. A lot of what the Huntington does is try to curate not just a group of wonderful writers, but writers that can really work well with each other. The cohort that I'm is really, really wonderful. And we all write such very vastly different works and we all come from different backgrounds and we have different areas of focus. We have people who are focusing a little more on TV or film and people who are really just getting into playwriting and really digging deep into the stories they want to tell. And I think that's the biggest thing to remember, that just because you get a rejection it really could just be because you didn't fit whatever type of group dynamic they were trying to build.
So I would say, always apply. If you're here and you're available, it's really, really wonderful. And in terms of what I'm sort of getting out of it, because technically I'm still in it, they extended it because of the pandemic. What is usually a two year program is just about going to be three, three and a half. There is a money stipend, which is really, really nice. And that is, it definitely helps to free up a lot of time so I can really focus on writing. But they also have a lot of resources that they give you access to. You're getting opening night tickets to all of their productions and you are able to meet artists whenever they're able to coordinate that. And most of all, I think the best thing to take advantage of is that they're always willing to put together reading rooms for your plays.
So you can get professional actors, you can get people from the area, people that you may have really liked from Huntington productions. They'll bring them in if they can to really read your work and sort of give you a private space and there's really no strings attached at no point have I been told, "Yeah, we'll put the a room together, but we'll record it. Or we'll share it with investors." It's never been that. It's been, "Do you have something you're working on? Do you want to read it with people or I can just read it." Charles Haugland over at the Huntington is a really, really wonderful person to work with and it's been such a joy. So whenever I have something that I'm working on, I can just send it to the Huntington and they'll read it. And it's just such a pleasure for an institution as big as they are to free their time for me. And it's just, it's so great. So I highly recommend it.
Georgette Pierre:
That's awesome. Yeah, I think a lot of times people don't know the resources available to them or don't even think certain things are possible. And so even though I was talking to a friend of mine, I was just like, "Listen, it's a different field than yours." But I said, "There are grants that exist for people of color. You should dive in. Dive in and get what is accessible to you and us." And so, yeah, when I was looking at the Huntington Theater and I just heard, sometimes we think it's local, but I think it's more than regional, Huntington Theater is [inaudible 00:20:05]-
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah. Huge regional company.
Georgette Pierre:
Awesome. Yeah, so getting into Emerson. No matter what we do, we know our experience at Emerson has influenced who we are today and for others listeners, any institution leaves its fingerprint on us, whether we use it or acknowledge it. What mark do you think Emerson left on you?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
I think what I consistently tell people is that Emerson had so many resources available to students. I think very fondly back in my time as a student theater, specifically student theater productions and the amount of money that Emerson pours into these student-led companies that are producing work all across different genres. There really is a student theater company for any type of specific theater niche you might be looking for. And that's where a lot of students really get to cut their teeth and hone their craft. They're acting, they're producing and directing. And for me, I really wanted to play around with as many aspects of theater as I could. I was working backstage as a theater electrician, I was doing scenic designs. I was a carpenter for Emerson stage. And then I went on to do acting and writing and really, really got to dig deep into what theater is and what making theater is.
And I think that's so amazing. I can't think of many other opportunities I would have had to just be given a, not necessarily a blank check, but to be given money to produce things that we are passionate about. And to sort of really hone our craft there. And just not just to taking it out of the classroom and really putting it on stage. I think that's the biggest impact Emerson had on me was just giving me the space to experiments and explore and figure out exactly what aspects of theater I enjoy. Because I went in and I was like, "I'm going to do acting through and through." But the more time I spent at Emerson and the more I realized, I really could immediately jump into things because it was also accessible. I was like, "Oh, you know what I want to do? Scenic design. I want to do writing. I want to do pros and film and television." And it was truly just such to joy. And I look back on it very fondly.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah, Emerson felt like the world was your oyster. I lived at the radio station. And then finding out later that there was all these groups and organizations and associations, I was like, "Emerson does what? What, they got their own [inaudible 00:22:27]," after the fact. So yeah, I could definitely attest to that. Do you have an audio adaptation that's supposed to land this year? Can you talk to us more about that?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's attentive this year, though I'm very confident now. I will say I signed this deal a little bit before the pandemic and then the pandemic happened and it's all sort of taken its time. But no, it's so wonderful. And it's an adaptation of my play, The Ortiz Twins Are Coming Home, which is just a wonderful little, I like to call it, it's like James and the Giant Peach, but everyone is Mexican. It's really just about two kids going into Mexico and sort of reconnecting with their indigenous roots. And it's such a joy and it's such a wonderful play. And like I said earlier, it's one of those plays where it's too big for the stage or it's too big in the sense that there is a dollar sign, dollar sign, dollar sign always connected to any possible production of that play.
So being able to explore that in audio is really wonderful. And Stormfire Productions is so wonderful. It's led by two really amazing creatives and they're sort of working to bring this play to life. And I remember I pitched, they had a pitch that they were looking for and they said, "We want scripts or stories that have to do with magic." And they told me that my script played with magic in ways that they hadn't seen before, which was the importance of memory and heritage and culture and how that weaves itself into very earthy magic. And it's just been such a joy being able to not just adapt it, but also dig deeper into that world and explore the characters in ways that I couldn't on stage. Because I can't have flashbacks or I can't have the number of flashbacks I might want or character back stories or fun side quests. I can't do that stuff on stage, but in audio I've got 10 episodes. That's 400 minutes of audio. I can do whatever I want.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah, that's awesome. I love it. How much do you, it made me think about, because I read a little bit about some of your past work, how much has your upbringing, because you said you lived on the border of Mexico in Texas, how much has that lived experience influenced your work and the work that you align with?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Oh yeah. Very, very much. I lived in a little two story government subsidized, that whole shebang. Lived in this little apartment a stones throwaway. You could look down the street and see the fence of the border over in El Paso, Texas, and that singular home I, maybe first eight or so years of my life, I grew up there, that singular home is pretty much where I set almost all of my plays. If there's a home in El Paso, it's that one, because it has a canal behind it. It has train tracks, it was underneath a highway overpass. And there's just so much too, like that sounds scape of that childhood bedroom that has really oozed its way into my writing. And it's all about community and dust and dirt's and pigeons and trains.
And all of that is in my plays and very much will be in the soundscapes of any of my audio projects. But absolutely, it's that whole community and just that whole upbringing that informs almost every character in my plays, they really are for better or worse. And to my family's chagrin, a lot of my plays are just reflections of my own family history and drama, whether they like it or not.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah, I think it's easier, and I'm learning this as I'm working on a scripted series, like my first pilot episode. But when you speak from your lived experiences and real characters or real things that exist, it actually makes the story come more to life. I don't know if you found that to be true as well for yourself and some of the things that you've written?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Yeah, absolutely. It's much easier I think to write these characters, to develop these stories when I can point at a character and say like, "Oh, he's really like my Theo Albert. And oh, well, you know what? Yeah, she's messy, but she's messy like my Thea and like blah, blah, blah." And it makes it really easy to sort of just cherry pick people from my family or memories and put those together. And it really does make the world feel lived in because they're all people I'm familiar with. So I can find those mannerisms and those way of talking and especially silences and beats. I love that in plays. And just getting that rhythm and being familiar with that rhythm, it's just, it makes it a joy. In the Huntington Fellowship I have a little bit of a reputation of being able to write really quickly, but it's only because I'm really good at just remembering conversations and remembering rhythms and beats and getting that all out there. And it's just, it's a joy.
Georgette Pierre:
I love that. I love that. What's one thing you'd like to try next and why haven't you tried it yet?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Ooh, that is a very good question. The answer that first popped into my mind, and I'm finding myself now doing a little more audio acting, and that's been and great getting back to my acting roots. But something I think I want to get into is singing in audio musicals, because I don't have a dancing bone in my body. I did a lot of musical theater in high school, but not a single dancing bone, but I do really miss the fun that comes with musical theater and just sort of even that camaraderie that you get with a cast of people that you sing with and perform with for a long time. And there are so many more audio musicals that are starting to pop up and starting to build and grow. And I really find myself wanting to do that again, but it's been years since I've sung, it has been more years than I want to actually acknowledge.
So, it's one of those things where it's like, "Maybe I'll get around to it, maybe I won't." But I think that also is just a testament to audio in that there is just so much that is out there and that you can do.
Georgette Pierre:
Absolutely. And lastly, Andrew, what does it mean for you to make it and how will you know when you get there?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
Ooh, I have been thinking about this a lot recently. And I think a big part of it, and I'm going to gush on audio again, and a big part of what made me fall in love with audio as a medium is its accessibility to audiences and specifically people back home. I am currently finding myself very fortunate to have plays and productions happening back home. I had a high school production of my play, The Ortiz Twins. I'm zeroing in on a bigger production of my play, Borderline in my home city where it's all set. But I think the biggest thing is that audio lets my younger sisters listen to it. They're finally getting an opportunity to consistently have access to my work, because otherwise I can get opportunities like the Huntington or Company One or playwrights when I'm in New York, but all these readings, all these productions, they're never going to be able to see them.
They're never going to be able to access stories that I in a lot of ways wrote for them. Especially my YA work is really centered on narratives that I wanted to share with my younger siblings, since we come from drastically different generations. I think there's nearly a 15 year age gap between me and my youngest. And just wanting to share those stories that they never got to see, but realizing and really reconciling with the fact that a lot of the stage work I do will never be seen by my family, just because of accessibility. And just funding in the arts in general, especially in Texas. But with audio I can really explore and expand and tell these stories and share these worlds with the people that they're written for.
Georgette Pierre:
I love that. And Andrew, how can people find you, your work online, on social media, all that jazz?
Andrew Siañez-De La O:
I'm very active on Twitter at, @SianezDeLaO you can find me. I post a lot of work there. My website is as up to date as I can manage, specifically my resume and about me. So if you're ever curious about the work that I do, you can find it all there.
Georgette Pierre:
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