October 11, 2022
Zach Kornfeld studied video production at Emerson, and now? He tries EVERYTHING. A member of the beloved YouTube channel turned multi-media franchise, The Try Guys, Zach uses his Emerson degree every day — but he’s not doing it alone, and in fact, recommends strongly against doing just that when the power of collaboration is immeasurable. And what’s more? It makes you and your work better. In this episode of Making it Big in 30 Minutes, Georgette and Zach discuss the fine art of failing fast, getting out of your own way, and advice-slash-reminder to detach your creative output from your self-worth. Spoiler alert: you are so much more than views and Zach would know! Recorded on July, 25, 2022.
Transcript: Season 5, Episode 1
Zach Kornfeld
Georgette Pierre:
What does it mean to make it big? Well, it depends on who you ask, and we did. Welcome to Making It Big in 30 Minutes, a podcast for, by, and about the Emerson community. You're about to meet an Emersonian who's making it, making a living, making a difference, and sometimes making it up as they go. I'm your host and alum, Georgette Pierre. If you like what you hear, subscribe and share with your friends, and meet me and other Emersonians over on Emerge, the only digital platform exclusive to the Emerson community. Go to emerge.emerson.edu for more.
Georgette Pierre:
Zach's connection to video production and filmmaking started when he received a LEGO Movie Maker as a child. Fast forward to him getting a bachelor's in video production from Emerson, forming The Try Guys comedy troupe with three other friends, which started off as a well-known YouTube channel, to it now being a fruitful business with employees. Zach joins me to chat about being a boss, the best advice he ever got, and how he keeps the momentum going when life starts life-ing. I welcome Zach Kornfeld on Making it in Digital Production. Zach, hello. How are you? Thank you for being here with me today.
Zach Kornfeld:
Hello. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Georgette Pierre:
Absolutely. Okay. So lighthearted or quirkiest way to describe your profession.
Zach Kornfeld:
Ooh. If you want to go lighthearted, I guess I would say I'm a self-loathing YouTuber.
Georgette Pierre:
Self-loathing. That is too interesting. To even back it up and connect the dots, for those that may not know, The Try Guys, super huge YouTube channel. Content is hilarious. You all started at Buzzfeed and then branched off into your own thing.
Zach Kornfeld:
Yeah.
Georgette Pierre:
Can you connect those dots for us, how you started at Buzzfeed and what made you all branch out on your own, and what you all are currently doing and working on?
Zach Kornfeld:
For sure. We began as video producers. This was back in the early days of viral video. Facebook Video had just launched. It seemed like anything was possible before social video was used to usurp every moment of our collective attention, and even launch insurrections. This was a beautiful time of promise for viral media. So we began just thinking about what made people click and share. Through an organic process of testing, we created this group, The Try Guys. It took on a life of its own. We continued at Buzzfeed for about four years until we realized that, really, to grow, we had to go off on our own. So for the last four years, almost? Yeah, it's been about that. Time is fuzzy now, for obvious reasons, to me. I think it is for all of us. But for the last few years, we've had an independent company. We've grown to about 25 employees. We've used that property to unlock a lot of our personal and collective dreams.
Zach Kornfeld:
The Try Guys now is not just a show. It's not just a comedy group. It is a network of shows, both on YouTube and beyond. We have written a best-selling book. We've gone on an international world tour. Fuck. What else have we done? We've got a couple podcasts. By the time you guys are listening to this, we have our first television show, No Recipe Road Trip, on Food Network and Discovery Plus. By the time people watch this, they'll know if it's any good or not. We'll see. They may be listening to this and being like, "That piece of shit?" But no, I think people are going to really like it.
Georgette Pierre:
Listen, because you all got it, I'm pretty sure it will be fine. You all figured out a way to be authentically yourselves in the spaces that you're in, which people are really trying to find that balance. Name a piece of advice that's tattooed to your heart in what you do personally, and even professionally.
Zach Kornfeld:
Ooh. It's always don't be afraid to fail, and fail fast. So much of my early creative life was based in fear and not wanting to put myself out there, that if I completed a project, then I would have to live with what it was. I'm sure people listening can relate to that. Having that project where you just hold onto it a year and you go ... I'm a video person, so I'm thinking about editing. If I just change a couple frames here and there, oh, now I'll fix it. It's like, no. Okay. It is what it is. You made it. Move on. Don't be afraid to fail. That means diving into things, but also letting go of things. I always think about Ira Glass's talk about the gap and how the only way to close the gap between your taste and your ability is through the process of making a lot of things.
Zach Kornfeld:
I'm going in different directions here with that idea. But I think the only way that I've grown as a creator is by learning to let go, it's a very hard thing, making a lot of stuff, moving on, making more stuff, moving on, and looking at my growth over time. Then the only way that I've been able to grow as a person is to say, "I don't care how stupid I look. I don't care what the outcome of this is. I'm going to do this for myself. Results be damned." It's led to some really wonderful discoveries in my life.
Georgette Pierre:
Oh, my gosh. I feel like that piece of advice is for me because I have been stuck on stupid, for lack of a better word, on recreating, getting back into my own personal podcast, development ideas. I'm just like, "Ah!" I feel so overwhelmed.
Zach Kornfeld:
I'm there with you. I keep finding myself back in the same damn patterns. I have this one project I've been working on. I've been holding onto it. I finally just said, "Zach, shut up. You're getting in your own way. It's due next Tuesday." I set a meeting so that I know I have to now. The train's leaving the station.
Georgette Pierre:
Wow.
Zach Kornfeld:
Whatever it is, it is, and we're going to figure it out.
Georgette Pierre:
Oh, I love that. The train is leaving. Thank you for that, though. Seriously, I mean, jokes aside, I'm hearing you because I'm in the same space. I really, really care about telling stories that aren't being seen for TV, for film, now podcasts, or getting a big stake for a lot of these streamers and networks. I just sometimes feel like I'm not good enough. The confidence goes in and out.
Zach Kornfeld:
Right. Yeah. We all hit that.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah.
Zach Kornfeld:
Okay. I'm going to give you two more. All right?
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah, please. Come on.
Zach Kornfeld:
One, my favorite is the Pixar adage. They would say, "We release films. We don't complete them." That plays into the other idea, where you are your own worst critic. You are going to be holding your creative work to a higher standard because you know what your taste is. You know what you like. There's that heartbreak of whatever. You got to just let go. Okay. That's one. Two is that going viral is overrated. This is coming from someone whose job it is to go viral. That was my job. I was part of the wave that redefined the internet, and I think in some ways changed it for the better, in many ways changed it for the worse.
Zach Kornfeld:
My job was to super engineer things to the largest, widest audience possible. You and I both know that the things that the most people consume is not always the best. So you need to really look at what are the goals of the piece that you are making and not let the noise of the internet and what we've been told matters warp your brain, because there's numbers, there's views, and there's impact. I often think that impact can be so much more important than views.
Zach Kornfeld:
Look, I'm going to speak in an absurd place because our videos get a lot of views. I'm going to talk about a million views, which is crazy. But you have something that gets a million views, but is like, okay, it was fun, it was a distraction. It's content. It comes in, and it goes out. It flows through you. It helps distract you. Then you release something that gets half that or a quarter of that or less. You release something that gets 10,000 views. But the people that watched it are moved deeply and intimately by that. I'll take that. Not all the time. My job sometimes is to make the stuff that goes far and wide. But man, the stuff that can actually move people?
Zach Kornfeld:
You just need to know. What is the project that you're making? I think it's really easy in the modern viral age to be discouraged by a lack of virality on your work. That's true for YouTubers. That's true for journalists now. Journalists have to go viral. Again, I'm sorry. I'm part of why we live in this world now. I helped screw it up. But I think we all need to reset the expectations for ourself and our work. We will be much happier, and the internet will be much healthier for it.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah, I agree. It's the comparison that also comes in. It's just like, "Well, they did it this way. I wonder if I do it." It's almost like, "No, no, no, no, no. What is for you makes sense." When you all did what you did, it made sense for the timeframe that you all did it. We were talking about lack of confidence, going in and out of that. Have you had a job that had ever made you question what you were doing? And then what did you do about it?
Zach Kornfeld:
I think what we're talking about, with the fact that my job is to always go viral, I've questioned that a lot. I've questioned that increasingly over the last couple years. I think it is draining. So what I've done is I've refocused my focus. There's got to be a better way to say that, but I've recentered what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. It's been a recommitment to a core audience instead of always trying to reach broad beyond them, and also taking this moment of opportunity to be true to myself. I didn't get into making viral videos because I was obsessed with being seen by as many people as possible. I did it because I wanted a platform to do the stuff I cared about. Over the last eight years, it's been very easy to get swept up in the excitement and the thrill and the serotonin of those views and let that be my true north. But it's not my true north. The true north is why I got into this to begin with. That requires a lot of grounding and reminders and therapy sessions and long looks in the mirror.
Georgette Pierre:
Oh, I'm not mad at that. But I love that there's a vulnerability and honest look at how you navigated these things, because I think, to your point, people could think, "Oh, well, they get all these views. He's been doing this for so many years." All that other stuff. But even those people still struggle with creating the next thing and expanding the next thing, or making something better than the next thing that blew up. So thank you for your candidness.
Zach Kornfeld:
Well, hey, views don't last forever. Then what do you do?
Georgette Pierre:
They do not.
Zach Kornfeld:
Right? You go up, and you go down. You know what's crazy to me? YouTuber has become the number one most desired job amongst kids, which, oh, that's just so fucking scary to me. It used to be actors, which is equally as silly. But now I think that becoming some sort of viral something where you're making a decent amount of money is a lot more achievable. But the average lifespan of successful creators is eight years. Guess what number I just hit? Eight years. That's why I'm thinking about this stuff. But for a lot of these people, they're going to enter this. They're going to start making money, and I think many of them, unfortunately, are going to find a lack of longevity there. I think that could do a real number on your mental health. We'll see what happens.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what would you say to your Emerson self back when you were in school?
Zach Kornfeld:
Okay. Yeah. I mean, my Emerson self, I would say two things. One, take advantage of this time to make as many things as humanly possible. Again, now I'm retreading, but that was the time where I was really holding onto projects and assuming that I would make one thing that would change the world, change my life, this is my defining project. No, because if you're going to be a great screenwriter or a great director or whatever, you need to be able to make more stuff. Any working screenwriter will tell you that as soon as you finish your script, time to write the next script. You're going to write 40 scripts. You got to keep going. I don't think I took as much advantage of that time.
Zach Kornfeld:
I also think that I would tell myself that there is time. I remember I didn't go study abroad. Emerson has that castle program. I'm like, "Well, there's no film production over there. I can't go. I'll lose a semester." But what would I have gained in life experience? As a creative person, all you have is your life experience. All you have is the stories that you've lived that you have to tell. Look, I did fine. I still went to Prague for a summer. That was nice. But I'm like, "Damn, I should have gone to the fucking castle, man. I could have been living. I could have been Euro hopping around. What was I thinking? Do I really think that four months editing on a steam deck was better than going and living in a castle? What am I talking?" Okay.
Zach Kornfeld:
I think the most important lesson that I've learned is to be flexible. I think a lot of people at Emerson are similar to me in that they have had this steadfast vision of their creative selves from a very young age. When I was 10 years old, it was, "I'm going to write and direct movies, and that's it. That's my life. There's nothing else that I would ever, ever be happy doing." I was wrong. All my friends were wrong. Everyone who had a vision of what they were doing, they found something adjacent to their interests. I don't know how I found this, but my ability to remain open and flexible led me to a path that was so fulfilling in ways that I never would've imagined and opened me up to opportunities, dreams I would've never even dared. I mean, I said I wrote a book. I went on tour. That wasn't part of the vision. It's just because I opened my arms and let life come at me.
Georgette Pierre:
That's very important to note because I remember you couldn't tell me I wasn't going to be a TV host. You couldn't tell me that I wasn't going to be a radio person, the biggest radio personality ever. By the time I got to New York, I was like, "Mm, I want to be in TV." But I started in TV production, and then I realized there was so much joy in storytelling, and then I really learned how to produce. I was just like, "I don't need to go after TV hosting. I can write myself into a script." It became a different vision. I was just like, "I like the storytelling piece because I get to really contribute and be impactful." We were talking about in a different way than just someone saying, "Hey, go. Lights, camera, action." It just felt different. So I'm with you on that. Definitely with you on that.
Zach Kornfeld:
That's a beautiful expansion, too, of that idea. What is at the core of this vision of yourself that you have? For me, I want to direct and write. Okay. Is it that you want everyone in Hollywood to clap while you collect your little trophy? No, you like telling stories. There are a million ways to do that.
Georgette Pierre:
Interesting things stick out in our minds from school, some useful, some not, and yet we deem relevant or important at the time. Is there anything that stuck out to you that you didn't deem relevant, but it turned out to be super helpful for you?
Zach Kornfeld:
I think, for me, and this is a common thing you hear, is just the power of the people you meet in school and the Emerson Mafia. I made connections just by being a good guy, just by trying to be nice and be good to people. Those have come around and paid back in ways that I never expected. The person who got me into Buzzfeed that began this whole journey is my friend Ella. We weren't really friends at school, but one time I had a party. I invited her over because we had mutual friends, and she always remembered that. When I needed help on a project, I reached out to her. We became collaborators. There you go. I think it's just be a good person. Keep in touch with the people that you're around. You're never going to know who's going to help you with what. Return those favors, and find like-minded collaborators.
Georgette Pierre:
I love that. When I did season four, I felt like there were some similar parallels to what you just said. People were always talking about they're in touch with people that they were still in school with, or are friends with them for 20, 30 years ago, depending on what it is. When we come out of school, though, Zach, they tell you, "You should be going after the CEOs, the VPs, all these executives." But most of the time, it's your peers. I always think back. Everyone always references Issa Rae's interview, and you just affirmed it. It's like, "No, I was still in touch with people that were climbing the ladder at the same time I was, or was parallel to the ladder that I was climbing to get to where I got to." Yeah.
Zach Kornfeld:
It's parallel success. Yeah. Come up with your peers as opposed to trying to shove them to the side and then always have your eyes looking up, because the people that you're growing up with now, they're the ones, one, who are going to be more invested in your success. And two, they're going to be in positions of power later. So it's a big deal.
Georgette Pierre:
It helps. It helps. Is there a lesson that you had to learn the hard way?
Zach Kornfeld:
All of them. Something that I've had to learn, and it was a hard lesson, is to collaborate and to work with other people and let other people ... To let go, really, is what it is. I was a huge control freak. When I began my career, I was conceptualizing and shooting and setting up the lights and writing and then getting in front of camera and then editing and controlling every facet of production. Letting go and letting people make their own mistakes, my employees, I have to let them stumble and learn on their own. It's important because it frees you up as a creative to do more, to do other things, but also, it's rewarding. It pushes your content to places where it never would've. Now I have this whole fleet of collaborators who are, frankly, better at the individual things that I ever was. They're better editors than me. They're better shooters than me. But I had to learn to let go and welcome other collaborators and creators into my orbit. That was huge. It was the fucking game.
Georgette Pierre:
That was a big lesson for you to learn, essentially.
Zach Kornfeld:
I think that was the biggest. It seemed impossible when we started. I was like, "You're out of your mind. No one could ever possibly edit videos the way that I do. The only reason we're successful is because my magic fingers are pressing those buttons." I was so dumb. Also, it just wasn't feasible. There was no time. Editing requires just eight hours of no disruption. For what we wanted to build and do, it was not possible. Not only is it essential to my growth as a person to let go, but then, also, once I did, I found people who were so much better than me. Not even a little better than me. So much better than me.
Georgette Pierre:
They love doing it, though. That's all they get to focus on.
Zach Kornfeld:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah. That's the beauty in it. Yeah.
Zach Kornfeld:
There's that trust thing as well. You're trusting your collaborators to put their own creative stamp on it, too. You're letting them make decisions and own it. It's no longer mine. It's ours. I think, frankly, the auteur theory is one of the most damaging things that young creators come up with, the idea that individual directors have this solo stamp on movies. It's such bullshit. It's not. Movies are made up by hundreds of people who are all making decisions and all contributing their own creativity. If you're not even open to that, if you're closing off and saying, "No, this is my vision," you're now robbing yourself and the audience the experience of what these other people bring. Why even bother working with collaborators if you're not going to unlock them to do their thing and let them make you better? Let them make the work better. Let them put themselves into what you're making together. It was the hardest lesson I learned. Once I just turned that corner, it unlocked everything. I can't even imagine how dumb I was before.
Georgette Pierre:
No, I mean, you go through the motions because it's not sustainable to try to do everything. That was me on my own personal podcast.
Zach Kornfeld:
Well, how hard is it to see someone make a mistake you've already made, to sit back and go, "No, no. You idiot. How could you ... No. Yeah, it has to obviously look like this. If you do it that way, then it would've ..." But if you don't let them make those mistakes and learn from it, then they'll never be able to grow. I literally used to be like, "Well, move aside. Let me do it." I had to stop myself. I'm like, "No, this is, one, fucking rude. And two, I'm now robbing that person the experience of pushing through this." Right?
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah.
Zach Kornfeld:
So I'm revealing that I was an insufferable person, and I got over it.
Georgette Pierre:
In short.
Zach Kornfeld:
In short, I sucked. Now I'm nicer to people.
Georgette Pierre:
Is there a mistake that you're glad you made?
Zach Kornfeld:
I think one of the biggest mistakes that I've made is tying my sense of personal worth to my creative output. That is something that has defined me as a creative person, or as a person, for a long, long time. I'm talking when I was eight years old, long time. That's really great when things are going well. When you're making stuff, you're happy. You feel proud of yourself. You look at it, and you go, "Look how valuable I am as a person. I made this thing." But there's really not longevity to that. I know I'm talking to like-minded people at Emerson. You have that fire within you. That is amazing. You should embrace that fire. You should stoke the flames. Let it grow. Let it make you great. But also know that life, there's a lot of stuff in it. If you don't find some work-life balance, you're not living. Your life will be hollow and meaningless if it's just about work and your creative output. You're also going to run out of stories to tell.
Zach Kornfeld:
My journey of finding work-life balance, I think, is one of the most important and ongoing projects I've done. Learning to find a sense of satisfaction and happiness that is in and of myself, that is in the moment, that's in the process, not the results. All of those wonderful things that you can talk about with your therapist. I think that this is a work podcast. I'm really just telling you all to go to therapy. I think that's the best thing that you can do.
Georgette Pierre:
On a lighter note, you have business ventures. We have The Try Guys. That's an actual company with different tentacles. You have a tea company?
Zach Kornfeld:
I do.
Georgette Pierre:
Zadiko. Yep. Zadiko Tea Company.
Zach Kornfeld:
Yeah. It's like La Croix. You can pronounce it however you want. I call it Zadiko.
Georgette Pierre:
What made you choose tea? I'm a tea gal. I don't do coffee. I have never been a coffee person. What made you jump into this venture?
Zach Kornfeld:
It was an interesting time. Okay. It's a whole journey. Let me try and do this. At the time, we were thinking about every digital creator sold merch. It was often just sweaters, hoodies. We were thinking about is there a product that speaks to you and who you are, that can deepen a connection with the audience? For my co-owner, Keith, he's a famed chicken lover. He's like, "What if I make a chicken sauce?" At the same time, we were brainstorming. I said, "People know I love tea." I can't do drink coffee because of my various Jewish-related stomach issues. Also, I rely on tea for its anti-inflammatory properties because I live with chronic pain, and I need that energy for the days I don't sleep. I wasn't really sure if I was going to do it, but when Keith launched his sauce, it was very successful.
Zach Kornfeld:
When the pandemic hit, I brought the idea back. I said, "Hey, maybe this is something that can help distract me from the existential dread I'm feeling right now." Then Shopify came to us at the same time and said, "Hey." They presented this utopian ideal of people using this tragedy as an opportunity to remake the world with a bunch of small businesses thriving. They said to me, "Do you think you could use your product as an example to show people how to do that?" I was really excited by the idea, the challenge of making a company from the ground up. I love new challenges, as I've said. Beyond video, I've made lots of things. But I was also excited by the opportunity to inspire our audience, to show people that had that spark, that had that idea, the ways in which they could create a business from their bedroom.
Zach Kornfeld:
What I've found in about two years since we launched is that I don't like being an entrepreneur. I'm not good at it. I like being a weird ideas guy. I look at that project very fondly. I'm very proud of the work I did. But so much of the success of it really hinged on me being a capital I influencer and saying, "Hey, here's my product. Please buy it." Because of the way that I made it, I wanted to make a really good quality tea, it's a very expensive product. That was not something I was ever able to bring the price down.
Zach Kornfeld:
Again, it was very successful. I'm very proud of it. But here's the self-loathing and me keeping it real with this intimate group here at this Emerson alumni and students. I would much rather use my powers and my energies to point my audience to my creative endeavors instead of things where I have to take money from them. That's just me. For the time being, the product's on the back burner. I haven't really been pushing it as much. It's there if people want it. I think it's fucking delicious. I'm drinking it every day. I have a mug with it right in front of me. I mean, I'd say the best part of doing it is that I now have a lifetime supply of tea. It saved me tons of money. Hopefully, people enjoyed drinking it as well.
Georgette Pierre:
I love it. I love the flip of it, though, because I think there was something that I saw where everyone became an entrepreneur during the pandemic, and then we're still in it. But one thing I saw coming out the forefront on Twitter this year and even Instagram, there's people that didn't want to be an entrepreneur, or they tried it, and they were okay going back to corporate America. Nobody wants to talk about that. I know that's not necessarily your case, but the fact of you tried it. You're like, "Eh, I want to use my powers for something else," or "I want to use my energy and efforts for something else." I think that's dope that you were open to sharing that.
Zach Kornfeld:
Also, it goes back to the tenant of I failed, and that's okay. I didn't really fail. It was successful in its launch, and I can pat myself on the back. But it's not a successful ongoing company. It became a break-even business. So I had to look at it and say, "The energies that I'm putting into this are not being paid back to me. It's really stressing me out more than it is making me happy. And I have these conflicted feelings about how I'm asking the audience to pay me during this really difficult time for them."
Zach Kornfeld:
I think the parasocial relationship creates this feeling in some fans that they need to pay you in order to support you. I was like, "No, no, no. How about just listen to this podcast where I talk about movies?" That's honestly something that I'm happier with anyway. I like movies. I didn't grow up saying, "I really want to start a business." It wasn't part of my dream. It was a cool opportunity, and I tried it. But how about you support me this way? You can just skip forward 30 seconds through the ads, but pretend you still listen to them, and then we'll have some big company pay me. I'll be happy, and you'll be happy.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah. I mean, jumping back to The Try Guys, the company, I know for people that are up and coming, that may want to dive into things that you have touched upon, what are you all working on? I know that you all have actually expanded to having employees. Is there opportunities for people to support you all, to potentially get considered, should they want to or should their skillsets align with what you all are looking for doing down the road?
Zach Kornfeld:
Yeah. It's funny you say that. I realize if anyone listening does not know me, I have not explained in the slightest what our videos are. But you're just going to have to go and find ... I guess it's not that hard to figure out. We're comedy. It's called The Try Guys. We try stuff. We've become very well known for our cooking content as of late. I'm a very bad cook, and that seems to be funny for people. Anyway, the question was ... What was the question? How can people work with us?
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah. If anyone wanted to ... I love the fact that this grew into a company. So people, just like the expansion, if anyone wanted to intern or even get involved with you all from the back end, from the company side to support.
Zach Kornfeld:
Yeah, we're expanding our interns. We're actually currently talking to someone at Emerson about getting some Emerson interns up in there. If you're listening, keep coming. We have ... I believe it's secondtryjobs [at] gmail.com, two, N-D, T-R-Y. We're always hiring. We're always open. We're constantly expanding. We have a bunch of Emerson alumni within the office, which is very exciting. But yeah, we're always hiring editors, social people. I mean, who knows what we're going to look like by the time this comes out? So hit me up.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah. I know for me, what the pandemic has shown me and a lot of people, if you're going to work, you want to be connected to companies and people that you feel aligned with or their mission, their goals. You all seem to have an ethos that people can connect with. The authenticity. Showing up as yourself. Really getting into the nitty-gritty. Yeah.
Zach Kornfeld:
The core of what we do, and this is going back to the very, very beginning, again, usually, I start with this part. So we're going memento-style with this. We're going backwards. But we're trying things in an effort to better understand the people and world around us. Look, we're three white guys and an Asian guy. We're all cis. Three of us are straight. But we're trying to use our platform and our videos to tell other people's stories and hopefully make the world a little less shitty whenever we can. Then sometimes people just need to laugh, too. I'm okay with that as well.
Georgette Pierre:
Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Zach Kornfeld:
Not only are we open to, we rely on perspectives other than our own to make our videos more truthful, more interesting. Yeah. I'm always hungry for new voices in the room. So we would love to. If you're listening and you think that you got something to give, hit us up. You can help make our content better. Help me buck-
Georgette Pierre:
That's awesome.
Zach Kornfeld:
... that eight-year curve line I was talking about.
Georgette Pierre:
No matter what you do now, your experience at Emerson has influenced who you are today. Every institution leaves its fingerprint on us, whether we use it, acknowledge it, or not. What do you think that Emerson-shaped mark is for you?
Zach Kornfeld:
Oh, it's hard to quantify. I mean, it's the people I met, the memories I have. It's even something as small as I remember one of my film professors, Rob Patton-Spruill, had this rule in his class that every project needed to have one special shot. What that meant was if you handed in a project and there wasn't just one thing that you had never tried before, and that could mean anything, but it had to be a special shot, he would mark you down a full letter grade. He didn't care if it was a perfect piece. You needed to try something you had never tried before.
Zach Kornfeld:
Of course, it goes back to that idea of put yourself out there. Try something new. I've tried to take that ethos. I forget about it from time to time. I'm glad you asked me because now it's a reminder. You always need to be trying something new in your work, or else you will get stale. We know what happens to stale things. They crumble. Except for Oreos. Oreos get mushy when they get stale. I like mushy Oreos. I'm weird like that. But most things get stale, and then they break.
Georgette Pierre:
I feel like I'm being read right now. That's actually a great-
Zach Kornfeld:
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to.
Georgette Pierre:
I'm like, "Wait, wait. Zach, wait. You're reading me, too. Wait."
Zach Kornfeld:
No, no, no, no, no.
Georgette Pierre:
No, it's good. You know why I tell you it's good? Because I was struggling this morning when I woke up. I have some lower back challenges. I was just like, "Man, I'm not feeling mentally strong today. I'm not feeling inspired today. I don't know how I'm going to navigate the day." Then somehow you manage to navigate the day. Right?
Zach Kornfeld:
That's okay, too. From one person with chronic pain to another, doing your best looks different every day.
Georgette Pierre:
It does.
Zach Kornfeld:
If all you could do today is get out of bed and do the dishes, that's all right, too. We still love you.
Georgette Pierre:
I agree. I love that. But that piece of advice from that professor really can ring true across the board. I am definitely going to have to utilize that. Okay. This sounds so sacrilegious to ask you, but what's one thing you'd like to try next?
Zach Kornfeld:
Aha.
Georgette Pierre:
Why haven't you tried it next? Aha. You see what we did there?
Zach Kornfeld:
Uh-huh. Now, I assume you don't mean in the context of videos. I'd really love to get a Brazilian wax.
Georgette Pierre:
Right.
Zach Kornfeld:
I'm really interested in the challenge of longer-form storytelling. Again, I began with this desire to write and direct scripted content, whether feature or on TV. My journey has allowed me to play in the unscripted realm and not just play in short form. I mean, I've now made television hour-length shows online, and now, by the time you see this, on TV. But yeah, I would like to take on the challenge of scripted. It's something that's really hard. It's a hard-won battle on the internet. The algorithms don't support it, so I may need to go elsewhere. Actually, you know what really it is? It's working on projects that take time. So much of my creative life on the internet is what's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? And that immediate feedback. What I've been working on for the last year and a half now is not showing anyone what I'm working on and not looking for that immediate rush of approval, because I think that going through that churn and really living with a project can lead to some great stuff, hopefully. We'll see. Have me back in a year, and we'll see what happens.
Georgette Pierre:
Yes. I look forward to it. If you could switch careers, what would you do?
Zach Kornfeld:
If I could or if I had to? I've really given myself no backup plans. I have no other skills beyond what I am doing right now. I think if I had to switch careers because, fuck, I don't know, my channel crumbled tomorrow, I'd lead Huffington Post's video team or something and go, "Look at all the experience I have." I'd be miserable, but it would work. If I could, I would love to disappear behind the camera, and no one would ever see me ever again.
Georgette Pierre:
Okay. You would really get in your crew bag, whether it's directing, whether it's just being behind the camera crew. That's awesome.
Zach Kornfeld:
Yeah. If I can pull a Jordan Peele, I'll be happy for it, and just go from the sketches and get behind the camera and don't come back.
Georgette Pierre:
Lastly, what does it mean for you to make it? How will Zach know when he gets there?
Zach Kornfeld:
Yeah. I think for so much of us, making it is measured by a career milestone or something monetarily. Making it is when I win that award or release that movie that makes a hundred million dollars. I don't think that it is because if that's what making it is, then you're always going to be chasing that high. You will never be satisfied. I mean, I'll tell you. I've achieved a lot of things. I am a number one New York Times bestseller. Woo, I did it. I don't think that's making it. I think that making it is finding a place where you are obviously monetarily successful and comfortable and, really, where you are happy and comfortable in the process. If you can do that, then I think you've made it. If you love what you're doing and can support yourself with what you're doing and you're happy every single day, yeah, you've made it.
Georgette Pierre:
Do you think you're there? Or you're at least climbing?
Zach Kornfeld:
I'm working on it.
Georgette Pierre:
Oh, man.
Zach Kornfeld:
I think you have to make it and make it again and make it again and again and again. I'm sorry. There's no top of the mountain. As soon as you get there, the rocks fall out from under you. You stumble a little bit, and you got to climb again.
Georgette Pierre:
Yeah. It's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You just start all over again. Right?
Zach Kornfeld:
Uh-huh.
Georgette Pierre:
You keep starting all over again. I like that. Exactly.
Zach Kornfeld:
That's hopefully where, if not before then, you realize that it was never about getting to the top. It's about loving the climb.
Georgette Pierre:
Oh. On that note, Zach, thank you so much.
Zach Kornfeld:
Thank you.
Georgette Pierre:
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